By Gary M. Kramer –
Writer/Director Bill Condon and actor Tonatiuh, who plays the dual roles of Molina and Kendall in Kiss of the Spider Woman, spoke with me about their new film.
Gary M. Kramer: Tonatiuh, your performance is, pardon the pun, spellbinding. Both Molina and Kendall are, in various ways, loyal but also deceitful. [Tonatiuh laughs] What can you say about developing the layers to your dual performances? And can I trust your answer?
Tonatiuh: You can trust my answer. I have the neurodivergence that makes it very difficult for me to lie. With Kendall, there are some nuggets that Molina says—the actor who played him was a tortured soul who was closeted. Well, who was a closeted actor at that time? Montgomery Clift. Let’s bring in the tortured soul of Montgomery Clift. So, I watched The Heiress to get that emotional texture and throughline. But there were little droplets of getting Errol Flynn’s hair, and I wanted him to move like Gene Kelly. I was constantly absorbing that mid-Atlantic 1940–1950s style film to embody that.
For Molina, because of their lived reality in the prison, I lost about 45 pounds in 50 days, so it became this fasted moment. But I mapped it out where, in that time, I would be shooting the musical, so I could put it into overdrive for Molina. My commitment was on creating Molina in this genderqueer, genderless form, because I wanted their physical form to be less of the conversation than their spirit or personality.
Gary M. Kramer: There is a real power when you sing “She’s a Woman.” Can you talk about the demands of the musical performances?
Tonatiuh: That was a whole different beast for me. I’ve never done a film musical before. But the beautiful part is that the music carries you through, down to the choreography. You would hear a ding on set when they are playing and think, “This is a perfect moment for me to look up at the camera or connect in this way.” During “She’s a Woman,” in particular, it seems like a very simple number, but there was a choreography between the dance and the mirrors, and all of the props.
Gary M. Kramer: What favorite film would you recount to me if we happened to be sharing a cell together?
Tonatiuh: Probably a Pedro Almodóvar film, like All About My Mother, or Bad Education.
Gary M. Kramer: Why do you think Kiss of the Spider Woman has endured for nearly 50 years? It was a book, then a film, then a musical, and now a filmed musical. What about this story resonates with you?
Tonatiuh: I think the resilience in both the Latino and queer community is timeless. The struggle for freedom never seems to end.
Bill Condon: This is a little bit like The Wizard of Oz. [Author Manuel Puig] created something that is deceptively simple. The idea of taking these two men who are so different—their sexuality and gender issues—and putting them together and then taking everything away from them so they are forced to see themselves as individuals, that is the power of it. I think that is what we all fantasize about right now. I hope that, if those two can connect in this way, maybe we can connect with people we don’t agree with also.
Gary M. Kramer: What decisions did you make in adapting the story to the screen? Your version deviates from the previous film and from the musical in places.
Bill Condon: [My film version] is closer to the book, I think, than anything else. One of the big decisions in making the movie was that Molina narrates one film. In the novel, there were six movies. Also, there has never been a movie called “Kiss of the Spider Woman” in any of the other versions. Another deviation from previous adaptations, but not from the novel, is making it a true love story and not a transactional connection. The lovemaking and kiss. when they finally happen, all have a sense of slight manipulation on Valentin’s part. That doesn’t happen in the novel.
Gary M. Kramer: In addition, the film’s style shifts from realist to technicolor to a kind of fantasy. How did you conceive of the film’s multiple layers?
Bill Condon: You see the film, and you think the Hollywood musical and the grittier prison drama exist in different worlds, but, actually, the challenge here was making sure that they merged—that you feel it like one story you are watching. Molina sees himself as Aurora, and Aurora is someone who has never been able to experience love. The same is true with Molina. The film is very much in his imagination, and he may be changing things based on what he might like it to be. That became the essential idea. How do they grow towards each other? As Molina becomes more vulnerable, the lighting in the prison suddenly becomes very romantic. When the Spider Woman (Jennifer Lopez) steps off the screen and enters the gritty world of the prison, she goes to the infirmary, so that takes a character from a technicolor movie and puts her into a dark world. To me, that was more fun. I hope when people see it, or let’s hope, see it again, they will notice, not that these two worlds are so different, but that they connect more and more.
© 2025 Gary M. Kramer
Gary M. Kramer is the author of “Independent Queer Cinema: Reviews and Interviews,” and the co-editor of “Directory of World Cinema: Argentina.” He teaches Short Attention Span Cinema at the Bryn Mawr Film Institute and is the moderator for Cinema Salon, a weekly film discussion group. Follow him on X @garymkramer
Film
Published on October 9, 2025
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